Where's the sodding ammo?

I'm comparatively frugal with ammo when I play computer games. In most games playing on 'normal' level, I come to the end with a hamper chock full of grenades, pistol rounds and rockets. Worrying about ammo has never been a concern.

But hang on, Just Cause 2, which is a sandbox game, saw me frustratingly running out of ammo with no apparent means of getting any more. There is a black market you can buy stuff from but it only sells weapons and vehicles - not ammo. In a sandbox game should allow you to play how you wish and if I want to go around blowing up all the fuel dumps with my M16, it should let me do that. I know there are 'mods' that give unlimited ammo but I want to play within the constraints the designers set out. Mods aren't cheating, they just change the game mechanic to make it more fun but I don't want to go that far just yet.

When you go on missions for one of the gangs then ammo is abundant, you can come out with full loads of everything but if you then go lone-wolfing around you soon run out. Ammo crates are rare and weapons dropped by enemies don't last long.

You're doing it wrong

I tried looking on forums but got the usual frustrating wank about "Don't suck so much" or "Think before you spray" or "I just completed everything with thousands of rounds left blah blah". There was one post by someone who seemed not to have an anus where his face should be who said:

"You're doing it wrong. It's more fun not to shoot."

I dismissed it at first, going back into game to hear the dreaded click. Rather than consign the game to the digital dustbin, I decided to try without shooting. When you start playing JC2 like you do any other game, you really are doing it wrong. You have to use the tools you've been given in imaginative ways to do damage.

For example, I was low on health and being chased by two jeeps and a helicopter. I had about 2 rounds left. I just couldn't get away and my car had enough smoke coming out of it that I could have been mistaken for a display team. I was about to overtake a bus when I decided it was time to turn and fight. I launched out of the car on my parachute, landing on the top of the bus. I turned and grappelled one of the jeeps, the other end attached to a tree. As the cable tightened, it slid out of control into the forest. I grappelled the side gunner and with the other end, I attached him to the road. He came out pretty quick. I grappeled myself up onto the chopper, killing the driver. I had myself a helicopter, which I used to blow up the other jeep. No shots were fired from my gun.

As much as I think JC2 should give you a means to buy ammo for people who want to spread it around, running out is actually more fun because it turns JC2 into a different game - not just another shooter.

With that in mind, I really started enjoying it last night. I've had to break my OCD of getting 100% in each 'area' before moving on because it's just not as much fun as finding a brand new village under the oppressive regime and blowing everything up. While flying under a bridge standing on top of a Harrier jump jet I had stolen, I started to get that old-school GTA 3 glow where you're having fun 'inventing' new things to do within the constraints of the game. The game didn't tell me to fly under a bridge standing on top of a Harrier, nor did it show me. It did let me stand on vehicles without them suddenly losing control and it provided a world with Harriers and bridges.

Just Cause 2 - I recommend it.

Comments

It's also a fantastically pretty game, and the grapple hook is awesome. I never walk in that game. And the innovation of being able to grapple two things together is great soldier to propane tank is fun watching the guy go mental as he tries to get away then gets yanked into the sky.

I also had ammo issues initially it's important to upgrade the base weapons the ones the troops always drop so pistol submachine gun (though it takes an annoyingly long time to unlock that) and the assault rifle as upgrading increases ammo capacity as well as stopping force. You can then be pumping rounds into people with one of these while the others recharge.

Using vehicles is a lot of fun and environmental damage is also crazy good. Also its worth remembering mounted turrets can be detached for minigun toting goodness.

The difficulty is a bit weird on JC2 in that even on normal you are made of tissue paper and will get completely shredded inside five minutes by a load of guards (although somehow free falling from 250ft then opening a parachute only as you feet impact the ground is fine)

As to ammo well If you are really short of ammo then order the gun from the black market and the box acts as an ammo refill trouble is initially it's very small (tied to the upgrade level) so you don't get many rounds and as I said the order of unlock is weird with submachinegun the standard in spray and play unlocked relatively late in the game.

Evilmatt's picture

All good points there, EMW. I've not really upgraded weapons yet but I do have a shed load of weapon parts. If upgrading increases Mag size, that may help solve a lot of my problems. I'm a pistol/M16 sort of person, and they are unlocked long before MP5 (yeah, that's odd that is).

I haven't tried attaching soldiers to things that blow up easily. The most ridiculously jammy tether I've managed is grappeling someone from the ground onto my Harrier after jumping from it. Harrier and guard went into a cliff. I've not managed to repeat it. Surfing on top of the Harrier is by far my most favourite thing at the moment. Kate thinks it's the objective of the game.

Using vehicles to blow stuff up was really handy early on before I got access to explosives. Repeatedly smash a military jeep into the side of one of those propaganda trucks will set the jeep on fire and when it blows, it will take out the propaganda truck too. That's all down to experimentation, which I've not scratched the surface off.

You're right that it is STUPIDLY GORGEOUS! Even on my 4850, frame rate never really dips below 40FPS and that's with all hell breaking loose. I have most things set up high - but not everything. The cloud effects are superb and the terrain changes in a subtle and pleasing sort of way. The jungle is excellent, making me yearn for a new BFV (which ever game does, tbh).

I think the enemy troops are a little too good at spotting you. There have been times that I've been hiding atop a tree and suddenly they spot me from miles away and I can barely see them.

brainwipe's picture

Downloading Demo...

Sparky Marky's picture

You can also upgrade explosives for similarly increased mag and destruction. The grenade eventually get powerfull enough to take out same sites or proganda trucks in one shot. And having many more triggered explosives is excellent fun running round wiring an entire town then watching from a safe distances as it all goes up at once.

The addition of the ability to get about just using the parachute and the grapple to pull yourself along is pretty good especially so when you just need to get a bit further down a mountain and can't be arsed to drive.

The variation in areas is very nice and the view distance makes it pretty great to climb something high/ use a copter and stare off into the distance. It's basically got everything desert jungle snow rocky terain small villages big towns massive cities all modelled in impressive amounts of detail and all accessable non of this unlocking bollocks. You see the fancy hotel on the horizon grab a jet/helecopter/speed boat/ tank/ bus/ tuctuc and go see it climb it base jump off it then blow various bits of it up.

The enemy troops do take a leaf out of crysis's book where they can spot you three miles away in a jungle hiding behind a tree and then shoot you in the foot. It does seem odd to spend all that time perfecting lush forest to only make it worthless as cover.

One of my favorite things to destroy is that statue of the leader, each time I find one I try to take it out a new way. Tearing it off with a helecopter using passing enemy jeeps to topple it, smashing into it with a motor bike and so on.

The faction missions are quite fun if a little repetative actionally there is some gem the story is a bit weak and the developers wimp out on their open world premise in the last bit of the game. It does then open back up in "Mercenery mode" which means you can go on destroying stuff, I finished the story on 20% of the game done. The sheer scope of villages to find (and destroy) people to meet (and destroy) and vehicles to fly/drive (and destroy) is great.

I wish the jump jets were proper VTOL or at least had hover but still lot of fun flying those things. Passenger jets area also good fun.

The sand box element is the best part of that game lots of fun to be had and they've just released the monster truck free dlc that's got to be worth a go

Evilmatt's picture

Oh one other thing and grenade launchers (which you don't get till later in the game) count as pistol class so you can dual wield them :D

Evilmatt's picture

Triggered explosives YES! Last night I did a load of upgrading to my weapons and it really helped. Since then, I've not come close to running out of ammo.

I have discovered that you can sneak around a village, pick up all the crates, attach triggered explosives to everything and while surfing out of town on a bus (love the idea of taking the bus) blowing it all up and getting 100%. The heat level bounces up but you'll be long gone.

The Monster Truck is fucking brilliant. It has a machine gun and dual grenade launchers on it and will go up just about any incline. It's replaced the Harrier as my vehicle of choice for the moment. While biffing around in it last night, I noticed that lots of the "villages" (or small industrial sites) have ramps. RAMPS! I got some wicked air off one of them in the Monster. It's not massively fast, I might have to get one of the sports cars from the city and see how far I go. The Monster Truck is genius and well worth 75p. Tonight I might try driving it off the top of the biggest mountain. Or driving it up there. Then off it.

DLC like the Monster Truck is perfect for Sandbox games. It doesn't really fit into the world but it really doesn't matter. It's all about how much fun you can have. As long as they don't break too far from reality, they can keep adding stuff and I'll keep buying it.

Fish was on Steam last night and he asked for multiplayer. Imagine if there were two of you causing trouble. How much fun would that be? Lots of the vehicles have a driving and a gun turret or one could drive and the other stand on top. Co-op mayhem would be superb! There's so much island, I can't imagine running out of stuff to explore.

I've not tried a Passenger Jet yet. I wonder if you can tether them to the ground as they're taking off? That's sounds like a fun way to spend an evening! Dual wield grenade launchers? EXCELLENT!

Everyone else...
If you're not tried Just Cause 2 then get the demo at least. It's superb fun.

brainwipe's picture

It's very addicting and so much fun, just about managing to not rush out and buy it.

Sparky Marky's picture

DLC is always a mixed bag this one seems pretty good as they go. A lot of the DLC has been either pants or just ridiculously expensive since the whole concept of DLC started with the Horse Armour debacle it's always had a somewhat rocky road to travel.

Things like project 10 dollars have distracted things a bit by having a load of DLC available at launch which isn't really DLC so much as part of the main game held back to screw over people who buy the thing second hand. Actually DLC seems to be a lot more difficult for people to manage and get the price right often their DLC is a load of retreads or half finished ideas that weren't good enough to make it into the main game. This time it seems like a good balance.

Evilmatt's picture

Mark - BUY IT. BUY. IT.

Yeah, DLC is pretty mixed. I liked the Episodic HL2 DLC and the DLC for Fallout 3 was good as it allowed then to address some problems that didn't come up in testing. 75p mini-payments for tangible cool stuff is superb. I downloaded it, loaded the game and bought one from the black market. Then I ponced around in it. EXCELLENT. I'm going to get more than my money's worth out of the monster truck I can tell you.

brainwipe's picture

The trouble with HL2 episodic content was it made a mockery of the idea of Episodic they couldn't maintain the release schedule I mean we are still waiting for Ep3 some six years on that's not episodic content.

Other companies have managed this like telltale games the people behind the episodic Sam and Max games, The wallace and Gromitt series, and the recent monkey island games. They had a schedule one game a month and they stuck to it.

Fallout 3 DLC addons were a bit hit and miss I found some complete bollocks others wonderful.

The borderlands DLC were pretty good especially the most recent one the secret armoury of general Knox it added quite a lot of new content.

Mass Effect 2 DLC hidden memories was a nice little addition a change of pace to do some theiving with Kasumi Goto it's a bit short but then it adds her as a new side kick so I guess it has more longievity than just her mission

DLC is still a fairly new innovation in the field and It's something people are still trying to work out how to do right

Evilmatt's picture
baron's picture

Love the Yahtzee! Have you played JC 2, Baron?

brainwipe's picture

Yeah, I like it. It's like being in an action film. Lots of carnage, little to get in the way.

So it's not deep, who cares. And yes as far as ammo goes, you were doing it wrong. Those bad guys are where you steal guns and ammo from. Just pull them closer to yourself, hit them a bit and you have free ammo!

baron's picture

Some more DLC on the way http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/just-cause-2-dlc-this-month-and-next

the air cannon thing sounds fun

Evilmatt's picture

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/black-market-treats-in-just-cause-2-dlc

some fun stuff there the jet pack parachute thrusters look fun as does the air cannon thing

Evilmatt's picture

Yeah, I tried to buy it this weekend but my card got declined. Fuckers!

brainwipe's picture

In other JC2 news, I found completely at random the G9 Eclipse and had a merry old time reliving Firefox scenes and blowing up all manner of stuff at Mach 2.

brainwipe's picture

I've had that with steam before

I get it a lot with online things my bank's anti fraud thing is ridiculously easy to trip if I do anything slightly out of normal like buy a tv or even just order 3 things from amazon in the same day they cut me off. It's a damned nuisance have to phone them up get it turned back on then try the whole rigmarole again.

I like the parachute thrusters but I wish they were a one time buy thing they are too damn expensive to keep fitting everytime you loose them due to death.

Ah I've seen that plane about I tried to ride on top of one as it took off ... it didn't end well.

Evilmatt's picture

Very much like this game.

Spent a great deal of yesterday dropping helicopters on explosive things, flicking people off oil rigs and wandering around with a dismounted gun...

byrn's picture

@EMW - the airfield where you saw it take off is where it is hangared.

@Byrn - Not been onto an oil rig yet. How did you flick people off the rig?

My OCD kicked in again yesterday and I started 100%ing a lot of places. I've done 2/3 of the main city bits (took ages, last one I have 100% but it's not ticked over so I must have missed something) and two of the big military harbours. I like placing triggered explosives and then running up to a vantage point to watch the fireworks. My record is 52 placed explosives, all going off at maximum efficiency.

Done all the strong hold missions now and a few of the clan missions (which are really good) but only two agency missions. I nearly did mission 3 but I saw an airfield and decided to have a crack. Then the OCD kicked in and it was time for bed.

My collection OCD is also having trouble. Like Pete used to do expertly with cars in GTA3, I want to ram as much stuff in a 'garage' somewhere. And then go back and admire/use my collection. I know this is against the fast-and-loose design I like so much, I still get that urge.

Favourite vehicle is still the Monster Truck. Mostly because it adds a level of stupidity to any occasion. I am in your military base, the shit is hitting the fan, I really need some transport, what do I choose? MONSTER TRUCK!

brainwipe's picture

@Rob grapple them, then something near the rail. Slightly dissapointing in that they are absoulutely unharmed by a long fall and can still fire with pinpoint accuracy from the water, but all part of the fun :D

Monster truck was the first thing I bought off the black market - although, being the first thing, I didn't know how the system worked and was standing on a roof at the time. Cue monster truck arriving down the side of a building, facing the floor. Doh!

Likewise have done the first couple of missions (no real choice there) and have wandered round blowing stuff up. Got a few 100%s, mainly military bases for the shiney new vehicles. Done a couple of stronghold missions so far, the nearest (power plant) and one for the Reapers (up in the mountains)...

Thanks again for the prezzie mate, its damn good fun ;)

byrn's picture

@Byrn - thanks for the tip. There have been times at the Space Port that I've want to launch people over the railing. The best I've managed to do is attach one chap to a 747 taking off. That worked a treat.

Glad you're enjoying it. I forced Bigger Rob to buy it and we've not seen him at work since. The other person I think would enjoy the mentalness of it is Pete - but I think that might require a PC update.

brainwipe's picture

The number of times I've bought a vehicle from the black market and immediately destroyed it is quite high. Usually I'm trying to fly the little plane using a crappy dirt road with trees on either side as a runway.

I'm currently working my way around 100% various villages and military things doing the odd mission to get the upgrade parts. I've done the odd race but I've never been a big fan of race mechanics though a couple are base jumping races where you hurl yourself off a cliff and try and hit the various waypoints without getting killed.

It is a lot like prototype in a way with its "Ooo a free helicopter!" threat mechanic although instead of being an unstopable killing machine you are made of balsa wood and tissue paper.

@rob 52 triggerd explosives, that's pretty impressed I've not managed that many. I did set something like 20 or so in one area but they must have reset because not all of them went off

Evilmatt's picture

Something else I discovered at the weekend is that I can use my Xbox 360 controller without having to remap anything. As soon as I get into an aeroplane, I pick up the controller and it makes life a lot easier - key control is too cumbersome for the aircraft.

brainwipe's picture

np mate ;) Would work a lot better at the space centre, as a fall onto hard stuff should do the job nicely :D

Like it - never really done anything that impressive... have flipped cars off bridges with the same method, but that was during the end of mission 2 ;)

The races I'm not too taken with.

Yeah - its much more challenging to nab a helicopter than in prototype (must finish that someday) just because you tend to be turned into organ confetti when you break cover to grapple. I've got the technique of hijacking boats down quite nicely though ;)

The unmounted gun is pretty overpowered... I've stood and taken out a wave of level 3 heat just by mangling them as they turn up. Of course, you can't take it in a vehicle or use any of the abilities that make the game unique when holding it, but its just so effective...

byrn's picture

The 360 controller intergration is becoming increasingly common, Fallout3 does the same as well as things like saint row 2.

I've noticed there are a lot of little stunt ramps lying around, it's less than the secret stunt things GTA did but still a lot of fun to be had hitting those things while in a chase.

Yeah the unmounted gun I only discovered that after I had finished the main game but it comes in handy for the odd strong hold :D

Evilmatt's picture

I suspect having a controller would help gameplay wise - I'm using keyboard and mouse. Probably gives me considerably more accuracy though as I can't use a controller for toffee...

byrn's picture

I'm not sure what degree of auto aim it's using it's not exactly a precision shooter so probably quite a lot.

Evilmatt's picture

It would need a lot - never played shooters on controller, so I'm no good at aiming with one, so I avoid playing shooters on controller, lather, rinse, repeat...

byrn's picture

I use both controllers! Best of both worlds - Xbox for flying and driving in races (throttle in cars is a paint in binary as wheel spins are common) and the old n52te and mouse for everything else. I can recommend it - an analogue throttle is a boon!

I like the gattling gun too and don't think it's too overpowered because you can't really do much but stand and shoot - walking is far too slow to make movement worthwhile and you can't do that with your trigger finger glued down. You have to drop it to pick up ammo for other weapons, which is a bit annoying.

Has anyone tried getting their heat up to max? If so, what happens?

Normally I'm trying to complete some sort of self-defined mission (driving monster truck over river/blowing up 30 things at once/flying under three bridges while standing on top) and therefore keep my heat below 3. I might try that, actually.

brainwipe's picture

My heat only goes up to 3 ;)

I'll work on it :D

byrn's picture

I find it depends on the shooter, some require pixel perfect accuracy and other well it doesn't matter so much, so Bad Company 2 I can't imagine playing without a mouse and keyboard. Often I find the camera the clue 3rd person camera = less accurate no need for mouse and keyboard. Having said that I have been trained by years of console use to accurately use thumb sticks so it may not be as easy for people not so used to the control system.

Evilmatt's picture

On offer on Steam until 1800
£29.99 -> £14.99

Also on offer
World of Goo for £4.25
Portal £1.39

Sparky Marky's picture